Meeting held on Monday 18th April 2022
Seven people were present. Four sent their apologies.
Continuing the conversation about the situation in Ukraine, we considered Finland’s plan to join NATO. Russia under Putin is threatening to Finland and so, the protection of NATO was desirable. But would Russia perceive Finland’s membership as a threat? Does the matter?
We wondered what Putin’s overall aim was. Russia is in an appalling situation economically and it was suggested that the Ukraine attack is Putin’s desperate attempt to make his mark in ‘the last chance saloon’ as one person put it.
We viewed the conflict in Ukraine as a conflict between ‘old-fashioned’ liberal ideas of democracy vs totalitarianism rather than simply a matter of Russia vs ‘the West’. However, many Western democracies were also becoming more totalitarian in outlook, despite their leaders having been elected into office. Even UK, with a PM who breaks the law with impunity and pays little regard for certain traditions of parliamentary democracy, is becoming more totalitarian. In USA, this move towards totalitarian seemed to go further, under Trump. And so it was not surprising to find that some Trump supporters in USA are on the side of Russia in the present conflict.
The geopolitical implication of all this are complex; not like the Cold War of capitalism versus communism. Certainly the right of nations (particularly those who lived under Russian communism) to self-determination is important.
We also saw this in the light of the rise of China which we see as inevitable, although the extent to which we view this positively varies, with our awareness of the lack of human rights in China on the one hand, and a much more positive view of the Chinese from those amongst us with personal experience.
But where will the Ukraine conflict will go? We considered the lesson from history that it will be important to be generous (rather than vindictive) towards the losers, if we are to find a way of co-existing after this conflict.
We also considered the plans to send illegal UK entrants to Rwanda in the context of the wider issues of housing and immigration. There are not enough houses and essential services for UK to take in more refugees. But is that because there are too many refugees, or that too little has been spent on housing and essential services? According to the political right the problem is refugees, despite the fact that we have so so many vacancies for nurses and other essential workers which could benefit from more refugees in the labour market.
The next meeting will be on 16th May.